religious but not spiritual
Sep. 8th, 2011 12:26 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
hermionesviolinMy best friend and I were talking on Saturday about last Wednesday's controversial UCC "devotional." [Edit for those who don't follow me on facebook (where I have commented in various threads, including one of my own) {edit2: or who missed my earlier complaint}: I have basically all of anger at this piece. /warning]
She mentioned that people have commented, "Nobody would say they were 'religious but not spiritual,'" to which she was like, "Uh..."
I said, "I am totally 'religious but not spiritual.'" I don't "experience" in worship. I have a strong commitment to Christianity, and I make a commitment to attend communal services (though I don't tend to think of this latter one as a conscious choice, such a creature of habit am I), but my commitment has always been and continues to be a primarily intellectual one.
My best friend commented that she has committed to a set of practices, including communal worship, which frequently do not result in spiritual experience, so the "spiritual but not religious" person might come across as saying, "Hey, I have spiritual experiences all the time, all by myself," which might be experienced negatively by someone for whom spiritual experiences are rare.
Whereas my reaction is more like, "Oh, that's nice for you that you so easily have these experiences which I don't have any strong desire to have" (there's an asexuality analogy here somewhere).
She mentioned that people have commented, "Nobody would say they were 'religious but not spiritual,'" to which she was like, "Uh..."
I said, "I am totally 'religious but not spiritual.'" I don't "experience" in worship. I have a strong commitment to Christianity, and I make a commitment to attend communal services (though I don't tend to think of this latter one as a conscious choice, such a creature of habit am I), but my commitment has always been and continues to be a primarily intellectual one.
My best friend commented that she has committed to a set of practices, including communal worship, which frequently do not result in spiritual experience, so the "spiritual but not religious" person might come across as saying, "Hey, I have spiritual experiences all the time, all by myself," which might be experienced negatively by someone for whom spiritual experiences are rare.
Whereas my reaction is more like, "Oh, that's nice for you that you so easily have these experiences which I don't have any strong desire to have" (there's an asexuality analogy here somewhere).
no subject
Date: 2011-09-08 06:14 pm (UTC)*makes very sad face* I so want for churches to be safe places...
I'd done a lot of my complaining about the piece in various facebook threads already, so I didn't repeat much of that in this entry, but perhaps that would have been a good idea. One of my big problems with Daniel's piece is that I feel like "Christians" like her are a big reason why so many people reject Christianity. My primary response to her piece was, "I'm not that mean and *I'm* too mean to be a pastor." (I have basically all of the anger at Lillian Daniel's piece. Her co-authored book on ministry has been on my To Read list for a while, but I have such a bad taste in my mouth re: her now.)
One non-fail response (from an ordained minister, even) to Daniel's piece is http://pambg.blogspot.com/2011/09/spiritual-but-not-religious-bring-it-on.html
[Edit: Another non-fail response, this one from someone in the ordination process: http://jamesmichaeljoiner.com/2011/08/31/on-religious-boredom-or-do-you-wear-your-collar-in-the-airport/ ]
> When Daniel disparaged Christians who find God in a sunset, that really struck a nerve with me because I equate nature with the divine-- is it really so unusual to find a/the Creator in His/Her creation?
I think Daniel thinks the Divine IS present in nature -- see the second sentence of "How lucky we are to have these geniuses inform us that God is in nature. As if we don’t hear that in the psalms, the creation stories and throughout our deep tradition."
I think her problem is with people saying, "I find the Divine in nature -- something you clearly have never thought of, what with your institutionalized religion -- oh, and have I mentioned how I do this all myself; you with your foolish need for community."
I posted this entry ["religious but not spiritual"] to facebook as well (with non-lj links) and one of my church friends commented: "Very interesting thoughts. I tend to think there is a thoughtful way to mean "spiritual but not religious" (I-have-problems-with-organized-religion-but-still-engage-in-a-valuable-array-of-individual-and-communal-spiritual-practices), and a number of unthoughtful ways (I-don't-like dealing-with other-people-or-having-obligations-to-them, I-like-sunsets-not-fighting-poverty). The world is a mix of the thoughtful and unthoughtful ways, and the unthoughtful can grate."