"they ain't sold the coffee pot, have they, Gil"

[hermionesviolin]

Country is like The Grapes of Wrath*. Though the end reminded me of Erin Brockovich. It was definitely a better movie than i had expected. I cried a little bit at times.

At the beginning of the movie i was thinking about how much it reminded me of The Grapes of Wrath and how stories like that are painful for me on some indefinable level. So then i was thinking (yes, while watching the movie) about why that is. I think part of it is a prejudice, the idea that farming is their life and they don’t know how to do anything else, whereas if a (sub)urban loses his/her job, s/he has plenty of skills to help obtain a new job. Yes, i know this is flawed logic. My second thought was that they’re so very much about common people getting screwed by the “System,” which is very painful for someone who cares about people.

We were talking about the spirit of capitalism in Soc class on Thursday. About piece work and wage labor and so on. About how the spirit of capitalism is to make as much money as possible, for the purpose of making as much money as possible (as opposed to, say, for the purpose of making enough money to never have to work again, or making enough money to support all the charities of your choice). About maximizing profit at the expense of human beings (your competition, your workers, etc.). As we discussed i realized why so many political zinesters are all “capitalism is evil.” It is. See, i’ve always had this idea in my mind that capitalism is ideally providing goods and services that people want, and you want to make the best products/services you can because if you don’t someone else will. But then all these other factors come in. Creating a demand. Cutting corners to maximize profits. Makes me want to cry. (This seems to be a recurring theme with me these past couple days, huh?) But yeah, i hate human nature sometimes. (And it’s also a weird concept to wrap my mind around because it goes so entirely against my nature -- which yes i know is really a combination of nature and upbringing and all -- to hurt other people.)

Yeah, that’s all i’m up for right now. And i’m sure there are plenty of people who know much more about this than me and can be way more articulate about it.



*An interesting aside. GrapesOfWrath.com is a catering service, and GrapesOfWrath.net is a rock and roll band.

Comments

hold on

[marginaliana]

About how the spirit of capitalism is to make as much money as possible, for the purpose of making as much money as possible (as opposed to, say, for the purpose of making enough money to never have to work again, or making enough money to support all the charities of your choice).

I think that's a serious misrepresentation of capitalism. Capitalism isn't based on a desire, it's based on a set of rules (the rules being that you can't interfere with the way money flows naturally). Capitalists don't just believe that the system will get them all the money they want because they like money; they believe that, ultimately, the natural way that money flows will settle out rightly. A lot of capitalists believe in social darwinism, too--if you don't have anything useful to bring to the society, you're gonna die out (I'm oversimplifying). Money works that way, too. If you don't have any supply that is in demand, then you're not gonna get paid for it. And it's the job of things like public education to make sure that everyone has something to offer (in terms of skills) as opposed to the job of the people who have skills to take care of the people who don't have skills. And a lot of people think that capitalism is the only JUST way to go about it. They regard it as unfair that some people, who have worked hard for their money, should be forced to give some of it to other people who haven't done anything for them. And it is kind of unfair. I don't think people are entitled to being supported just because they're people. As a matter of fact, I don't think people are entitled to ANYTHING just because they're people (but that's a separate issue).

Now I'm not saying I advocate total capitalism, because I don't. I'm in favor of things like minimum wage (because it ensures that people are paid what society thinks their work is worth, as opposed to what an individual employer thinks their work is worth). But I certainly don't think capitalism is evil. I think modified capitalism is probably the best option we have. Now if anyone can think of a better system, go right ahead and tell me about it, but the truth is that no better system exists today. Communism is an interesting idea but it doesn't work at all in practice. And I strenuously object to the statement that human nature is inherently out to get money for the sake of money, because I think it's simply not true

Re: hold on

[offbalance.livejournal.com]

I was going to say exactly what you said. But you said it better than I did. :)

also: on humans: I've always had this theory that since humans were hunters (that's what having 2 eyes in the front means), and since we don't actually have to hunt for our food anymore, those instincts get spread into other areans. And if you think about it, what we do at work, and how aggressive we are/aren't, is kind of like hunting for food.

or maybe just if you're me...

Re: hold on

[marginaliana]

Re: the hunting instinct...That's an interesting idea. It seems like people tend to have the same range of feelings about what they do: some people really like the aggression of the hunt/the business day, while other people just do what they have to do to get fed, you know?

And it's also interesting that while some people are obviously hunters, others are obviously gatherers (in the business sense as well).

Hrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmm... :)

Re: hold on

[offbalance.livejournal.com]

exactly! so, what some people regard as disgusting is actually somewhat related to our primal instincts.

(and like any good Buffy fan knows, the world did not begin as a paradise, as popular mythology dictates.) ;D

Re: hold on

[marginaliana]

Although that might not be the best defense of capitalism against someone who is willing to argue that human beings are inherently evil. Although hermionesviolin doesn't really strike me as one of those. :)

(And O, Buffy fans! I will restrain myself from running screaming.)

Re: hold on

[hermionesviolin.livejournal.com]

I am so not an economist and haven't even finished Weber's The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism (the book we're reading in Soc class which prompted this entry) so i can't even comment intelligently on what Weber is saying. You're both making very good points, though, and you can continue to discuss to your hearts' content because i find it interesting and informative even though i am so not up for taking part.

jessikins4774, you said "And I strenuously object to the statement that human nature is inherently out to get money for the sake of money, because I think it's simply not true." I wanted to mention that Weber actually says it's difficult for "rational capitalism" to take hold because it is not human nature to work to make money for the sake of making money ("traditional capitalism," making enough to retire early or making enough each day to be able to go out and relax at the end of the day, is much more human nature). So you're right.

And no, i certainly do not think human beings are inherently evil. I think it would be incredibly difficult to live if one believed that.

*restrains self from quoting "Lie To Me"*

Oh, Buffy! jessikins4774, i will kidnap you and subject you to a marathon and convert you. (Incidentally, Layna (http://www.livejournal.com/users/laynamarya) and i were saying tonight that we never had that get-together with the three of us and Erin (http://www.livejournal.com/users/webchicky) and Layna thinks we should have a "everyone Layna knows on LJ meets Elizabeth" party.)

And, because what am i if not obsessive...

Giles: This world is older than any of you know. Contrary to popular mythology, it did not begin as a paradise. For untold eons demons walked the Earth. They made it their home, their... their Hell. But in time they lost their purchase on this reality. The way was made for mortal animals, for, for man. All that remains of the old ones are vestiges, certain magicks, certain creatures...
Buffy: And vampires.
-from "The Harvest," BtVS ep. 1.2

Re: hold on

[offbalance.livejournal.com]

doh. that's true. but it's not about being ALL Good or ALL Evil. It's not that black & white, or simple. Human Beings are grey. Capable of great good and great evil - it's just a question of ability and intent. and sometimes these things can go awry, but that's the point of human existence - to try our damndest and either succeed or screw up, and to hopefully, learn from these events.

*climbs down from soapbox* that's all I meant.
(oh, and HAHAHAHHAHAHAAA...but be not afraid..we don't bite!)